#191 chAru nivEdita about writing on rAmAyaNa

``...The second point was financial. I have written on several controversial subjects, and with only a hundred copies of my novel selling, it sometimes feels like writing in my personal diary. So you can imagine my financial situation. I had to borrow money from my friends, wife and son to travel to the US. I have some fans there with whom I could have stayed.

There is only one way to enhance my financial situation: writing for the Tamil cinema. But there is a problem — I will have to spend sleepless nights after calling all those mediocre Tamil films as “classics”. Even my greed to follow Chettiar to America won’t allow me to ditch my conscience. Perhaps I should write novels with with Lord Rama or Shiva as the central characters — I could portray them like Akshay Kumar in Special 26 and sell million of copies? Does anybody know which IIM gives training for this? Please help me out if you do! ...``

We can see the above quote from the English Daily Deccan Chronicle. Here is the link to the complete article:

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130424/commentary-op-ed/commentary/poor-writers-naked-rajas .

title of the article: poor-writers , naked-rAjas.

Mr. chAru nivEdita, author of ``Zero Degree``, a novel considered as his magnum-opus.

ybrao-a-donkey`s views

For the purpose of our blog, Lord rAma and Siva are relevant and important. I do not know about askhay kumAr except that he is a top Hindi-bollywood film star. This ``special 26`` referred to by Mr. chAru nivEdita also I do not know. I have to do some hard-work, home-work.

In the meantime, I shall confine myself to say : ``selling a million copies, is a great dream.``

As on date about 25,000 have touched our blog. I shall not say that many of them have read it. They might have touched the blog quite by an accident. A sort of lottery-prize to me. Some of them have abused me. But I shall not blame them, because we have to respect their right to have different opinions.

These 25000 views of my rAmAyana may be equal to the 100 copies of Mr. chAru nivEdita`s novel sales mentioned in the above quote. I believe that Mr. chAru nivEdita might have been joking when he referred to only a hundred copies of his novel selling.

Mr. chAru nivEdita`s liking for following the trail of Mr. chettiar`s (for details pl. see his article linked by me above) journeys from Los Angeles to New York by train and by cars in the return trips. I greatly appreciate his ideas.

Till recently, I too had a dream (fad?) to visit U.S., albeit on a different goal. It is interviewing people who live under bridges and flyovers. For us, the poor and LMC Indians, U.S. is a land of honey and milk. Even swAmi vivEkAnanda wrote:

" ... I have had two classes already — they will go on for four or five months and after that to India I go. But it is to Amerique — there where the heart is. I love the Yankee land. I like to see new things. I do not care a fig to loaf about old ruins and mope a life out about old histories and keep sighing about the ancients. I have too much vigour in my blood for that. In America is the place, the people, the opportunity for everything. I have become horribly radical. I am just going to India to see what I can do in that awful mass of conservative jelly-fish, ... "

I lived in Hyderabad for a number of years and am quite familiar with the people who live under bridges and flyovers. Even this place Guntur City of a million - at which I live - have people stretching themselves under bridges and flyovers. But, I could never believe that in the honey-milky-yankey-land also there are God-driven (God-ditched? God-damned?) people who live under bridges.

Here is a beautiful link about the tunnel people, tent-dwellers, truck-dwellers etc. in New York, Las vEgas, Kansas City, New Jersey, etc.

Click to go to http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-tunnel-people-that-live-under-the-streets-of-america.

Conclusion: A million copies of a book with Lord rAma and Siva as central characters, resembling akshay kumAr, -- idea of my writing such book, I shall send to a cold-burner.

#190 Mother- Why did you undertake a thing which threatens my life?

ayOdhyA kAnDa (Book of ayOdhya City)
Volume 2
Chapter 73 - sarga 73
verse 25 - SlOka 25 na tu kAmam kariShyAmi tavAhm pApanishcayE tvayA vyasanamArabdham jIvitAntakaram mama.

CONTEXT
Youngest queen kaikEyi asked her husband-king-daSaratha to send Prince rAma to forest on exile for 14 years and coronate her son bharata in his place. rAma, sIta, and lakshmaNa left to forest. bharata was brought back from his maternal uncle`s place kEkaya kingdom, for coronation. bharata instead of accepting the crown rebukes his mother kaikEyi.

GIST
Oh the one who is determined to sin! (pApa=sin nischayE=determined) I shall not undertake the wrongful act initiated by you and fulfil your desire. The act is life-threatening to me (jIvitA=life; anta=end; karam=doing; i.e. that which ends lives).

ybrao-a-donkey`s-views
We have to take a direct meaning. Why bharata was considering the act of kaikEyi as a criminal act which threatened his life? The circumstances of cold-war going on in ayodhya fort we can gauge. rAma and lakshmaNa, probably courtiers and citizens on one side. bharata, the 1500 horsemen presented by his maternal uncle on the other side.

rAma-lakshmaNas might have left to forest probably because they were apprehensive of aged-king`s regal powers (though exercised by proxy kaikEyi with king in her apartments.

bharata might not have been sure of his de-facto power, though he may become a de-jure king after coronation. If daSaratha`s army and courtiers revolted because the the tradition of crowning the primogenitor (first-born) was not followed, bharata and his mother might have been treated as criminals and condemned to a dungeon or even sent to gallows. Human history is full of many such acrimonious bitter incarcerations. bharata seems to have preferred a safer course of recalling his brother to ayOdhya, pacify the citizens and courtiers and decide on future course of action depending upon the course of eventualities.

Temple preachers may deduce a different meaning. bharata`s love for rAma was of such a great magnitude that bharata would have died of grief arising out of departure of his beloved brother rAma. But, there are circumstances to also deduce that bharata`s love to his brother rAma was not so ardent and glowing. Pl. see post No. #051 at this blog from the contents box.

#189 subrahmaNya vijayayam discourse by Mr. cAganTi kOTEswara rAo

Writing this blog is a balancing-act for me a la the balancing-acts of politicians who have to satisfy different sections of their vote-banks. I have an imperative to take special care in choosing every word I write in this blog and every sentence I construct, lest what I write may unintentionally hurt the sentiments of readers, particularly those who are not interested in digging into beliefs, facts, histories, legends and myths.

I have just now come back from tv viewing. Watched SVbC (Sri venkaTEswara bhakti channel) TV channel of tirumala venkaTEswara temple, also known as TTD. Today is subrahmaNya shashThi (6th day on which Lord subrahmaNya was born).
For the benefit of those who are not aware: Lord subrahmaNya = kumAraswAmi = kArtikEya = murugan = shaDAnana = SaravaNabhava.
ShashThi = 6th day of the 15day lunar fortnight. We get two shashThis in every lunAr month.
TTD-SVBC organised special orations of Mr. chAganTi kOTEswara rAo, a scholar of Hindu scriptures, enjoying the patronage of TTD-SVBC channel. He has today from 6.30p.m. to 8.30 p.m. dealt with in his oration, the whole story of birth of Lord kArtikEya.

Shri kOTEswara Rao, has during his two hour speech stretched in length, the basic story of subrahmaNya`s birth, and some other topics such as sanAtana dharma, vEdAs, Adi Shankara, kumArila bhaTTu, gnAna sambandha nAyanAr et al. He has explained that kumArila bhaTTu was the incarnation of Lord subrahmaNya, and that he defended the vEdAs against an onslaught of yagnas (sacrifices) as great evils, by the critics of his days (approx. 7c A.D.).

The venue, sAtya sAi nigamAgamam hall, Hyderabad, was fully packed, with audience standing or squatting even in alleys. The audience also responded with claps enthusiastically and voluntarily. He has great control over Sanskrit and telugu verses, which he quoted profusely. He deserves great praise for his oratorial skills and his retention powers of sAnskrit and telugu verses. He quoted extensively from vAlmIki rAmAyaNa, volume 1 (bAla kAnDa - shrI rAma`s childhood).

ybrao a donkey`s views

High-flow-style, oratory and verbal-ornamentation cannot create facts and truth-s from illogical interpretations and narrations be they in the original scripture or added by interpretors. They can only serve as audio-visual treats and do not serve truth-seekers. Dress-codes, facial-symbolic-marks, ear-rings, etc. also do not add anything to facts-truth(s).

Relevance of Mr. kOTEswara rAo`s discourse for this rAmAyaNa blog

The speaker referred to two stories of kArtikEya. 1. kumAra sambhava in volume 1 bAla kAnDa of vAlmiki rAmAyaNa. 2. kumAra sambhava literary work by 5th Century (or 11th Century) by kALidAsa.

Mr. cAganTi kOTEswara rAo, quite rightly, took up the vAlmiki rAmAyaNa school for his discourse. It seems that he has treated kALidAsa`s kumAra sambhava as a more literary work.

Context of kumAra sambhava story in volume 1 of vAlmIki rAmayan
Chapters=sargas 36 and 37. Young rAma and lakshmaNa were accompanying sage visvAmitra, to save his sacrificial pyres from the misdeeds of demons. visvAmitra uses the time spent on forest-trekking from ayOdhya to his hermitage, for narrating tales pertinent to the places they saw enroute.

The problem with temple interpreters-preachers-scholars of hindu scriptures is that they use their contents for justifying their personal beliefs, without at least mentioning that what they are dishing out is their personal beliefs rather than a realistic delineation of the legends and sagas of the great-inherited-epics. (to continue and revise without prior information).

#188 Can you comment something about Mr. Veerappa Moily's rAmAyaNa?

Question Can you comment something about Mr. Veerappa Moily's rAmAyaNa?
Ans: I cannot afford to buy the book priced at Rs. 500 (equal to my two months' 3g internet subscription to BSNL data card), in these days of spiralling prices. I shall try to get some extracts from the book, whenever I can find something authentic, on the internet and try to connect myself with the vAlmIki rAmAyaNa.
Mr. Moily is a powerful Union Minister. Central Ministries and the State Governments will compete with one another to buy all the volumes of the book for public libraries. Someday, I may be able to glance through them, on the shelves of public libraries. Can you write something about Mr. Narasimhan's (Governor of Andhra Pradesh), observations while releasing the book?
Ans: Here is a quote: ``... The Ramayana, as an epic, belongs to every citizen. The work by Moily delves into the nuances of relationships at various levels, between humans and the larger one between a ruler and his subjects. The ideal life of ‘Maryada Purushottama’ Ram has something for everyone to learn from. ...``
What sort of maryAda purushottama (the best human of great etiquette and inter-personal conduct) was rAma, can be seen from his slaying SambUka, a fourth-caste youth, simply because SambUka had the courage to undertake penance, which the rulers and priests was reserved only for themselves. A brahmin complained to rAma that SambUka undertook penance and consequently his son died. rAma immediately went to danDakAraNya on his pushpaka aircraft where SambUka was doing penance and beheaded him without at least hearing his side of things (audi alterim partem).
What sort of maryAda purushOttama was rAma, we can see from his mounting on the shoulders of hanuman, who was a scholar well-versed in vEdAs. Besides, hanumAn was a Minister in sugrIva's Cabinet. lakshmaNa mounted Prince angadA. Prince angada had no alternative except to carry lakshmaNa on his shoulders for 1500kms. kishkindha to lanka (which most Indians believe as today's srIlanka). It was nothing but slavery-- the slavery comparable to the slavery imposed on black slaves brought from Africa, by the Europeans.
Question: Can you write something about the observation made by Ms. Pratibha Ray, jnAn pITh awardee and Odishi writer, at the book-release ceremony?
Ans: Here is a quote:
``In his book, the character of Lakshmana becomes the hero. The narrative provides a different perspective touching upon various issues such as sexual oppression of women.``
Whether lakshmaNa becomes hero or rAma becomes hero, is immaterial as far as common people are concerned. It is just like this: Whether rAhul gAndhi becomes PM or whether priyAnka becomes PM or Robert Wadhra becomes PM, may be immaterial for the poor of India, as long as there are politicians to carry ruling clans on their shoulders and as long as there are voters lacking evaluating capabilities.

#187 Madhya Minister quoted a non-existing lakshmaNa rEkhA

"... Only when Sitaji crossed the Lakshman rekha, she was kidnapped by Ravan...If Sitaji (woman) crosses the Lakshman rekha, then 'Sitaharan' (crime against them) is bound to take place as Ravans are out there, ...

"

"When people cross their limitations, deterioration is bound to happen. It applies to everyone in the society, men or women,"

The above two statements were said to have been made by Madhya Pradesh Minister Mr. Kailash Vijayawargia, on the 4th Jan. 2013. He was said to have withdrawn his remarks later, stating that he was misquoted.

ybrems
Whether the above statements hold good or withdrawn or misquoted, it will be apt for us to note that vAlmiki rAmayaNa does not mention anything about lakshmaNa rEkha (the line drawn by rAmA's brother lakshmaNa, advising SItA, not to cross that line, till he returned to the hermitage.
VAlmIki rAmAyaN, book 3, (AraNya kANDa or book of forests) , sarga 29 - chapter 49, deals with abduction of SIta by rAvaNa at panchavaTi. The chapter has 40 verses. The chapter starts rAvaNa's self-praise. Ends with jaTAyu seeing the abduction of SItA by rAvaNa.
Chapter 45 describes the scene of lakshmana, folding his palms before Sita, and moving away, as he was unable to bear her harsh criticism for not going to rescue his brother.

3.45.39
taam aarta ruupaam vimanaa rudantiim
saumitriH aalokya vishaala netraam
aashvaasayaamaasa na caiva bhartuH
tam bhraataram ki.mcit uvaaca siitaa. 3.45.40.
tataH tu siitaam abhivaadya lakSmaNaH
kRita anjaliH kimcid abhipraNamya
avekSamaaNo bahushaH sa maithiliim
jagaama raamasya samiipam aatmavaan .

These verses show that lakshmaNa just moved away from SItA looking at her again and again with folded hands. There was no lakshmaNa rEkha (line drawn by lakshmaNa, limiting the movement of SItA).
When there was no line, where was the question of SItA crossing the line? The story of lakshmaNa rEkhA is in legends.

#186 Which dharma directed rAma to ask Sita to set her mind on sugrIva?

--Context: Place: Bengaluru (Bangalore), karnATaka, India. Date and time 28.12.2012, 6.15 p.m. to 8.00 p.m.

Subject: Shri rAmAyaNa vaibhavam (the glory of Shri rAmAyaNa). Speaker: Shri brahmashri cAganTi kOTEswara Rao.

TV channel: S.V.B.C. (Sri VenkaTESwara bhakti Channel), run by T.T.D. (tirumala tirupati dEvasthAnam, the famous Hindu Temple of tirumala, tirupati, Andhra pradEsh, inDia.

of the program: The speaker has great control on his voice modulation. He has great dhAraNa (memory retention). He has quoted sanskrit verses profusely from vAlmiki rAmAyaNa and probably other scriptures. He has also quoted some telugu language verses, particularly from bhAskara rAmAyana. I greatly appreciate his oratorial skills. May be from childhood. May be from continuous practice of lecturing and preaching.

Audience have also received it well. They have occasionally clapped and smiled in response to what he said.

The lecture is very long. Nearly two hours.

My memory retention power is unfortunately poor. I am unable to recall the verses quoted by him. But, I can say that many of the events of rAmAyaNa referred to by him, I am unable to trace in vAlmiki rAmAyaNa. His narrations may be from other rAmAyaNAs. Hindus regard vAlmIki rAmAyaNa as the first epic in Sanskrit language. Other rAmAyaNas are believed to be adaptations, improvements and modifications, to the basic story of vAlmiki's narrations. Hence, whatever does not find mention in vAlmiki rAmAyaNa, we can accept as a part of the rAmAyana story, for analysis -- at least for the purpose of this blog.

I do not have an audio or video of the oration of Shri CAganTi kOTEswara rAo. I can reply to every preaching made by Shri kOTEswara rAo in his speech.

Shri cAganTi kOTEswarao Rao, as he himself accepted in his speech, cannot speak freely. His brief was not to depart from the custom and scripture. If that was the case, he should have at least confined himself to vAlmIki rAmAyaNa. He was probably expected to speak as per the guidelines of TTD, SVBC channel, the SringEri maTh (monastery), the audience themselves, Hindus in general, etc. Besides, lecturing and preaching is his livelihood. Hence, I sympathise with him.

I believe that audience have taken pains to visit the venue of the speech, spending money and time. I found on T.V., one gentleman folding his hands and nodding his head in obedience. Others were also very much appreciative. They looked as though they were believing everything, the preacher said.

I wish that they start studying vAlmiki rAmAyaNa carefully, before they start every word of the speech. Nobody will dispute some of the advice given by the preacher about the need to respect elders, love brothers etc. Nobody, will demur on the need to make 'dharma' (duty- broad meaning).

But, the problem is, the preacher has a different meaning of 'dharma' or duty. His (and most of other preachers of not only Hinduism, but also all religions in the world) definition revolves around scriptures and what the preachers interpret as the decree of the pictures.

This need to blindly accept the contents of the scriptures, and the interpretations made by preachers, can lead to grave injustice to truth (sathyam) and dharma (duty) itself.

We cannot make out a list of erroneous preachings made by preachers and scriptures, of all religions in this world because, today the tendency is to claim that their sentiments are hurt. There will be street demonstrations and public outrage.

The same public which has time to throw stone and torch buses and buildings, has to change its ways, if they are to progress civilly, philosophically, and spiritually. They should start studying vAlmIki rAmAyaNa in an effort to find out truth.

I shall give one example from vAlmIki rAmAyaNa :

The preacher repeatedly stressed that rAma's greatness lay on his persistent adherence to dharma i.e. sanAtana dharma. I shall, now, ask the preacher one simple question:

Which sanAtana dharma asked or prompted rAma to say harsh words to sItA?

6-115- 22 and 23 BOOK 6 - BOOK OF WAR - YUDDHA KANDA CHAPTER 115 - SARGA 115 VERSES 22 AND 23 - SLOKAS 22 AND 23

tadadya vyaahritam bhadree mayaitat kritabuddhinaa Lakshman`ee vaa tha Bharate kuru buddhim yathaa sukham (22)

Shatrughne vaa tha Sugriivee raakshase vaa Vibhiishan`ee niveshaya manaha Siitee yathaa vaa sukha maatmanaha (23)

gist: Oh secure lady! I am declaring this today, with a determined mind. Set your mind on Lakshmana or Bharata as is comfortable to you.

Alternatively, set your mind, as per your convenience, on S`atrughna, Sugriva or Vibhishana.

I invite the great speaker, to quote the scripture (SAstra) or smriti, which rAma followed. Why didn't he wait to consult about dharma with vaSishTha or viSvAmitra or agastya or at least hanumAn? hanumAn himself was well-versed in three vEdAs. He might have known a lot about dharma.

#185 Mr. Ram JethmalAnI seems to have erred

Mr. rAm JethmalAni is said to have commented as under:

Ram was a bad husband. I don't like him at all. Just because some fisherman said something, he sent that poor woman (Sita) to vanvaas (exile). Lakshman was even worse. When Sita was abducted, Ram asked him to go find her as she was abducted under his watch. Lakshman simply excused himself saying she was his sister-in-law and he never looked at her face, so he wouldn't be able to identify her.

I must say, on the basis of vAlmiki rAmAyaNa, araNya kAnDa (Book of Forest), that Mr. Ram JethmalAni seems to have erred, particularly about his comment on lakshmaNa's excuse. I quote below the relevant verses of the vAlmiki rAmAyaNa.

3-61-14 maa viShaadam mahaabuddhe kuru yatnam mayaa saha ,br>idam giri varam vIra bahu kandara shobhitam.

---

mA vishAdam. Pl. do not become desperate. mayA saha kuru prayatnam. Search for her w along with me. This hill is glistening with many caves.

---

3-61-15 priya kAnana sancAraa vana unmattA ca maithilii
saa vanam vA praviShTaa syaat naliniim vaa supuShpitaam
saritam vA api saMpraaptaa mIna vanjula sEvitaam.

---

Maithili (sIta) is fond of forest. She might have entered the lotus blooming foret. Or she might have entered streams full of fish.

---

3-61-16 and 17
vitraasayitu kAmaa vaa lAnaa syaat kAnanE kvacit
jiGnAsamaanaa vaidehI tvAm mAm ca puruSharShabha
tasyA hi anvEShaNe shrIman kShipram eva yatAvahe.

---

gist: She might have hidden herself somewhere, for fun (prank), to know how we react. tasyA hi anvEshaNE shrIman kshipram Eva yatAvahE. O prosperous one (shri = Goddess of wealth, shriman = one with the Goddess of Wealth. But, this word is now used as a title of honor = honorable), for her search, we shall now proceed without delay.

ybrems (remarks of this blogger) Where is the question of lakshmaNa not co-operating? We must say, in all fairness to lakshmaNa, that he made as much as effort as rAma, and underwent as many travails and troubles as rAma while searching for sItA. I personally view that lakshmaNa's effort deserves a rank higher than that of rAma, because rAma was wailing all the time (I shall not use the word grumbling, because I do not want to be disrespectful to rAma) , while lakshmaNa did his work almost silently.

---

Additional observation: lakshmaNa's extra effort must include his hunting deer for their food and cooking them, while rAma kept on wailing. lakshmaNa might have even made the steaks succulent by roasting with extra care and fed into the mouth of his brother, to entice a reluctant rAma to take food.

---

Mr. malAni might have made his off-the-cuff comments, may be with a view, to generate laughter in the audience. But a Senior Lawyer like Shri malAni, who writes good essays in newspapers on the ethical professional philosophy of lawyers (jurisprudence), when there is criticism against him on his enthusiasm to accept briefs even from terrorists who attacked Indian Parliament, ought not to have made such comments based on some secondary evidence.

#184 rAma's advice to vibhIshaNa

Vol. 6 Book of War yuddha kANDa Chapter 19, sarga 19, verses 2 to 4 , SlOkAs 2 to 4.

---

khAt papAta avanim hriSTo bhaktair anucaraiH saha sa tu rAmasya dharmAtmA nipapAta vibhISaNaHa.

---

pAdayoH AaraNa anveShI caturbhiH saha rAkSasaiH abravIt ca tadA rAmam vAkyam tatra vibhIShaNaHa dharma yuktam ca yuktam ca sAmpratam sampraharShaNam

---

anujo rAvaNasya aham tena ca asmi avamAnitaH bhavantam sarva bhUtAnaam SaraNyam SaraNam gataH.

---

parityaktaa mayaa lankaa mitraaNi ca dhanaani ca bhavad gatam hi me rAjyam ca jIvitam ca sukhAni ca. (rAma said to vibhIshaNa:-) tasya tadvacanam shrutvA rAmo vacanamabraviit :- vacasaa sAntvayitvainam locanAbhyaam pibanniva aakhyaahi mama tatvena rAkshasAnAm balAbalam. (6-19-7).

Context rAvaNa abducted sItA. hanumAn traced sItA in lanka. rAma built a bridge across Sea and reached lanka. It was just before the war. rAvaNa's younger brother vibhIshaNa advised rAvaNa to return sItA to rAmA and make a truce. rAvaNa didn't heed vibhIshaNa's advice. vibhIshaNa and his four followers approached rAma and took refuse with him.

Gist vibhIshaNa with his men joyously (sampraharshaNam) fell at the feet of rAma and placed himself at the disposal of rAma. Now, rAma asked vibhIshaNa: "Tell (AkhyAhi) me the true strengths and weaknesses of the demons."

ybrems rAma clearly knew what he wanted! He wanted to know the secrets of demons, through the (traitor??) vibhIshaNa. Nothing more, nothing less!

question: You are too unreasonable towards rAma and vibhIshaNa. Explain

---

Ans: rAma was supposedly maryAdA purushOttama (ramA was the embodiment of courtesy and ethics). rAma as a true maryAda purushOttama should have asked vibhIshaNa to go to some other land and spend rest of his life peacefully, contemplating on Lord Shiva, the God of demons (daityas). Instead, rAma preferred to extract secrets of demons from vibhIshaNa and obtain his help in annihilating one's (vibhIshaNa's ) own brother. Had lakshmaNa or bharata done this type of thing, how rAma would have treated them? Younger brothers rendering slavish service to elder brothers cannot be restricted only to ikshvAku dynasty. The ethic should apply to all brothers.

---

We can compare here, vAlmiki rAmAyaNa and vyAsa bhArata.
99 kauravas were the younger brothers of duryOdhana. When mahAbhArata war broke out between pAnDavas and kauravas, none of them deserted duryOdhana, and took refuge with pAnDavas. All the brothers died in the war, with duryOdhana being the last to die.
In the same way, two alternatives were available to vibhIshaNa. 1. Fighting on the side of his brother rAvaNa and sacrificing his life, just as kumbhakarNa did. (kumbhakarNa too advised rAvaNa against war, but did not persist with his advice. He did not use the opportunity to join rAma's bandwagon. We can see how noble was kumbhakarNa when compared to the traitor vibhIshaNa.).

---

2. Leaving to a desolated place and lead a secluded life, till the outcome of rAma-rAvaNa war, consolidates. There would have been no need for him to return to lanka, had rAvaNa won the war. Why didn't vibhIshaNa choose this alternative? Why didn't rAma render this advice to vibhIshaNa? rAma is eulogised as being capable of vanquishing the entire world with his arrows. Did he need the info of demons from vibhIshaNa, really? Should a maryAda purushOttama sink to a level of encouraging traitors?

---

No wonder, there are a few tribes in Central India, who abhore vibhIshaNa and adore rAvaNa.

#183 Ravana worship can be as futile as Rama worship

We occasionally see news reports indicating that people(s) at some place or other worship rAvaNa, though this number can be insignificant when compared to the multitudes who worship rAma.

We also occasionally see news reports of some leader or other of some caste/community calling their members to worship rAvaNa instead of rAma.

Observations of this blogger (ybrems)

1. Worshiping kings  serves no purpose, if they were only humans (of history).  They can never protect or save individuals, communities and societies from invasions by foreigners.  For example, India was plundered by numerous invaders, over centuries.  Neither rAma nor rAvaNa saved the Indians.  The real difference was the fire-power (guns and mortors), a strong urge to kill people and plunder villagers, which Indians lacked.  Though, NOT PLUNDERING or NOT INVADING are noble qualities, this world does not respect noble nations or races.

Question: How to measure worship-worthiness? Ans: Worship of rAma is based on his proceeding to forest, to fulfill his father daSaratha's desire. For this relinquishment, rAma will probably deserve respect and not worship as God. We have thousands of freedom-fighters in India, who have suffered greater hardships, than those suffered by rAma. e.g. bhagat singh, khudirAm bOse, chandrasekhar Azad, rAj guru, to name a few. Then, there were soldiers who laid down their lives in the First War of Indian Independence, India's War with China, Pakisthan. If rAma was the incarnation of Lord VishNu, whose incarnations were bhagat singh and khudiram bose? Why temples are built for Shirdi Sai Baba all over India and no temples are built for bhagat singh? Ans: People worship Gods/goddesses of all religions, and humans whom the people treat as Gods/goddesses, simply because they expect satisfaction of desires and perception of protection and security from the Gods and saints. People believe that Shirdi Sai Baba can satisfy their wants, while bhagat singh cannot satisfy. This satisfaction of wants should take place WITHOUT DELAY. The people are prepared to pay a monetary price for it, apart from prayers and worship, by themselves, as well as through the proxies i.e. priests. Even VATican wants proof of miracles, before beatifying a person. If no such proof is available, it will have to be contrived by those who want to spread the cult. rAma's feet touch a stone in Sage gautama's hermitage, and it gets converted into a woman, gautama's wife ahalya.

Does rAvaNa represent dalits or tribals or some other oppressed class? Ans: It is very difficult to answer this question, in the absence of adequate evidence, in either direction. We can only say that battles took between/among invader races/tribes and native races/tribes. Thereafter, even intermingling and intermarriages took place, out of necessity. Thus, we are left with mixed breeds all over the country. We cannot say with 100% certainty, who is who and who is NOT who. Of course invader races/tribes tried to stop hybrid-izations and interpolations, by enforcing caste system and vilOma marriages. They succeeded in oppressing the defeated castes and tribes, but could not succeed in preventing hybridisations and interpolations. In the light of this background, and in the context of the 21st Century imperative problems of India (poverty, hunger, disparities of income and wealth etc.), it will be more apt for Indians not to give undue importance to birth. We must realise that inheritance is the root cause of most of our problems. These inheritances are worse than the proverbial ten heads of rAvaNa : Ten heads of modern rAvaNa 1. inheritance of political power 2. inheritance of income and wealth 3. inheritance of lazy occupations 4. inheritance of unduly large chunks of land 5. inheritance of sport careers 6. inheritance of filmy careers 7. inheritance of drudgery and slavery occupations 8. inheritance of corrupt, garbage and junk beliefs and knowledge 9. inheritance of rude behaviors 10. inheritance of greed for possessions and satiation of insatiable desires.

summary: We should live our own lives. Why should we worship somebody?

(To continue and revise)

#165 Did rAvaNa participate in durga pUjA?

Here is a link to an article in Dailypioneer.com., state editions, ranchi, dated 16th Oct. 2012.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/state-editions/ranchi/102138-asuras-who-hate-durga-puja.htmlhttp://www.dailypioneer.com/state-editions/ranchi/102138-asuras-who-hate-durga-puja.html .

This article highlights two things:

1. asura - sura role reversal.  In Iran, suras were bad guys and asuras were virtuous persons.  In India, suras are virtuous persons and asuras are bad guys.  According to researchers, Aryans migrated to India, via the Iran route.  The reversal of roles have taken place, over centuries.

2. asuras not worshipping Goddess durga, because she slew their ancestor mahishAsura.



ybrems (Observations of this blogger)

* hanuman's mother anjana dEvi's birth place being in gumla, jhArkhand and ravana-installed Shiva temple being located at dEvgarh, jhArkhand, I have many times at these blog posts expressed the feelings that rAvaNa's lanaka was in jharkhand.

*  The article of dailypioneer.com linked above, is speaking about asuras opposing and mourning durga pUja.  Their disinclination being based on the slaying of their ancestor 'mahishAsura' by 'mahishAsura mardini durga' is quite understandable.  (slaying of mahishAsura is an important theme of durga pUja).  Here, I wish to add:  Even rAvaNa was not a worshipper of Goddess durga (or parvati or any other form of shiva's wife).  This was probably because asuras were not sAktEyas (worshippers of mother Goddess Sakti).  In Hindu mythology, it is very difficult to trace out an asura, who worshipped female Goddesses.

*  I believe that Shiva worshippers (whether phallus-linga worshippers or not) migrated into India from Crete of Mediterranean sea.  Vishn - lakme worshippers migrated from Northern Europe's Old Prussia, Latvia and Lithuania.  Thus both Shaivas and VaishNavas were Europeans and whites.  asuras of jharkhand knowing 'iron' smelting strengthens the view that they were of European origin.  Other native tribes of bIhAr, jhArkhand, bengal and Orissa might have been the worshippers of Mother Goddess (durga or numerous other names).  asuras might have lost their ancestors mahishasura, ravana (all were whites) in battles with the Mother Goddess Worshippers.  VishNu worshippers didn't have to fight Mother Goddess worshippers, presumably because they (vishNu worshippers) did not try to conquer jharkhand.  Whether rAma won the battle over rAvaNa or whether durga won the battle over mahishAsra, they only indicate inter-tribal battle victories or colonial-tribal battle victories.  There is nothing like "victory of good over evil" etc.  We cannot make such attachments simple because, every victor considered himself 'virtuous' and that 'truth (dharma)' was on his side.  The poets, artists and balladeers receiving food and money from the victors sang the glories of the ancestors of the conquerors and tarnished the enemies.  Ravana, mahishAsura, being the losers might have naturally received the 'mud-slinging'.  These things happen even in today's elections.  Winner becomes the hero and Mr. Clean.  Loser becomes the villain and has to hide himself from public glare for some months.

*Visn-lakme worshippers of Latvia-Lithuania-Old Prussia-Norway-Sweden had 14 mAtE worship.  Historians have a great burden to find out how the 14 mothers of North Europe got integrated with the Mother Goddesses worshipped by Indian native tribes.  One probable distinction we can make may be in color of Goddesses.  Example Goddess kAli's black color.  It is not clear whether the North European 14 mAtEs consumed liquor, wore bones, stretched their tongues out etc.  Most of them  might have been white in color and consumed refined liquor, whereas the native Indian tribal Goddesses took unfermented toddy (palm juice) etc.  This integration might have taken place sometime around 4th Century A.D (to) 11th Century A.D.  For example, poet kALidAsa's ShyAmala danDakam (starts with mAnikya vINA mupalAlayantIm, madAlasAm etc.) eulogises the Mother Goddess Shyamala (shyAmala = one who is black/blue) combining all the qualities (imported and indigenous).



summary: I reiterate that rAvaNa might have been the ruler of deoghar area, jharkhand, with his capital at bhagalpur.  Difficult to trace evidence of his worshipping Goddess durgA or any other of her forms.




I invite the esteemed views of my readers, particularly those from jharkhand and south bIhar.

=====Subject to further editing. =====

#000j Replies to comments of Shri Jolly

Jolly has left a new comment on your post "#073, Mother- I shall satisfy myself with roots an...":

Valmiki Ramayana, the original narration of Ramayana, has a total of 537 chapters, and over 24,000 verses, arranged into six kandas, or books. There are only two references to meat, and over a hundred references to vegetarian diet.
of one is :-
The Ayodhya Kanda has 119 chapters. Chapter 20 describes Mother Kaushalya's grievous lamentation on hearing from her son Rama, that He has been banished to the forest. Rama tells her in verse 29,"I shall live in a solitary forest like a sage for fourteen years, avoiding meat and living with roots, fruits and honey". Can we validly infer from this that Lord Rama ate meat while in Ayodhya, and now He promises to avoid it in the forest? The exact words used are 'hitva aamishham'. 'aamisham' refers to meat and 'hitva' refers to 'disregarding' or 'with the exception of' (Monnier Williams dictionary). Traditionally, in Vedic culture, when a son leaves home to go to distant lands, he reassures his parents, that he would abide by strict moral codes and never deviate from the religious principles. Say a student promises his parents when going to stay in the hostel, "I won't drink alcohol while in the hostel." Does this mean that he is drinking it while at home? Obviously not. Similarly it's in this mood that Lord Rama assures His mother that he wouldn't stoop low.

ybrems
*Rama was a Prince prior to going on his exile to forest. He could do anything, as was common for other princes in India and abroad of his days.
Nowhere, did I say anything about what rAma ate or drank as a Prince. Hence, rAma taking meat in Ayodhya, as a Prince, is immaterial for me.

*His step mother kaikEyi did not ask his father for the arrangement of rAma living like a muni (hermit). Her demand was that he should go to forest, and that her son bharata should be made the king. rAma had unnecessarily and hastily made a promise that he would like a hermit, abstaining from meat. Had he broken the promise after some weeks or months, we need not have bothered much, because he, lakshmaNa and Sita MIGHT HAVE found that going was tough in forest without non-veg. Necessity compels people to break promises. He made a similar promise to the tribal king Guha, before crossing the river Ganga. The promise was 'to live like a hermit suriving on fruit'.
The problem here is, rAma broke both of his promises, the very next day of entering the forest.

The key laughable event here you can see in the Book of Childhood (the bAla kAnDa). It is almost the preamble to rAmayAna. :

PART 1, CHAPTER 1, VERSEs 2, 3 and 4, SANSKRIT:
kahnu asmin sampratam lookee gun`avaan kaha ca viiryavaan
dharmagnaaha ca krutagnaha ca satya vaakyoo dhrud`ha vrataha.

See the last two phrases: satya vAkyO = one who speaks truth. dhruDha vrataha = a person who is strong in adhering to vows (oaths).
sarva bhuuteeshu koo hitaha = who is the benefactor of all living beings.

Now you will get the questions: 1. How strong was rAma in keeping vows; 2. how strong was he in telling truth.3. how strong was he in benefiting all the living beings (3 people killing four deer in one day and throwing away major part as not-edible. For 3 people, one deer would have been easily adequate, as a deer might have weighed at least 30 pounds.
4.Why could not they (Sita-rama-lakshmana) satisfy themselves with one deer?

ybrems: about your comment comparing rAma to a student going abroad

This comparison is not really relevant because rAma was already acting as de-facto heir apparent of the king for 17 years after his marriage (rama's marriage). We would think that he was a responsible person and that he would not make loose breakable promises.

Was rAmA born on January 10, 5114 BC?

Question: Do you agree with the calculation that Rama was born on Jan. 10, 5114 BC?

Ans: (yb's personal views)
Internet is ablaze with the I-SERVE Planetarium Software Calculations, that Shri rAmA was on born on Jan. 10, 5114 B.C.
T.V. Channels are hammering with the news that rAmA is now a historical figure.

*Computational software are based on mathematical calculations and we can expect exactitude as per as calculations are concerned. Hence we need not dispute the date.

*We need not be adamant that rAmA was not a historical figure. He might have ruled his kOsala kingdom or ayOdhya town/city. But the usual evidences copper plate inscriptions / stone inscriptions / temple walls / forts etc. might have been lost with efflux of time.

*Question: Lunar month caitra (the month in which, the moon will be in conjunction with the star citta [spica in constellation virgo] on the full moon day) comes in March/April every year. How can it come in January?

yb's explanation: In 5114, the caitra month might have come in January. Zodiac starts with the star alpha aries (asvin) and ends with the star rEvati in the constellation Pisces. In the Hindu Indian callenders, the equinoxes, winter solstice, and summar solstice seem to have moved and have been moving continuously, albeit at a very minute pace.

For example, according to western astronomy, winter solstice (longest night) falls on Dec.21/22 and the Sun starts on a return journey from the constellation, capricorn. In the Hindu calendar, we are still celebrating it on January 14 i.e. a forward movement of 24 days. If a forward movement of 24 days can take place over some centuries, a forward movement of 90 days (Jan 10 to April 10) is not impossible. I am not confirming this theory. I am just indicating a possibility of caitra coming in January in days gone by.

Question: According to Hindu traditions, Rama was born in 2nd of the 4 ages i.e. trEta yuga (the Era of three feet), the length of which was 1.7 million years. Then, the 3rd age dvApara yuga (The era of two feet) has to expire. It was 1.2 million years. In the 4th age kaliyuga (The era of evil), we have gone through another 5,000 years. Total comes to nearly three million years. 5114 is just 7000 years ancient. We cannot accept this outrageous reduction in the period.


Ans: 1.7 years and 1.2 years are too long periods to measure, by Indians and Hindus. They are just the creations of temple scripture preachers.

What is this three feet and two feet, you have written above:
According to temple preachers, the Goddess of Righteousness and Virtue has four feet, like a cow. It walks with four feet i.e. with full strength during the krita yuga, the first age. Then the 2nd era, trEta yuga will start. The Goddess loses one foot of virtue, and limps with three feet. Ramayana Age.

Next follows, the 3rd era, the dvApara yuga. The Goddess of Virtue walks with two feet, losing one more foot. More lies and more sins. Mahabharata Age.

Now, the last Age 'kali yuga' starts. The Goddess loses its third foot, and barely walks with only one foot. There is only evil everywhere. We have already gone through nearly 5,000 years in the fourth Age i.e. kali yuga.

This story has only a fantasy value. It is just a figment of imagination.

summary: We need not dispute the computation of Jan. 10, 5114 BC, till contrary evidence is available.

recasting of rAmAyan TV serial

Question: Will it be reasonable to recreate the rAmAyana TV serial, with narration from rAmcharit mAnas of gOsWAmi tulsidAs?


yb's personal opinion: vAlmiki rAmAyan is believed to be the Adi kAvya (first book/poetical work) of India. We, naturally, expect it to have less number of insertions and interpolations, when compared to subsequent works which are only free translations of the first book.

I have great respect for tulsIdas. He was the greatest poet of Hindi language. Nobody doubts his devotion to rAmA. But, this devotion is the very reason for his altering many events of rAmAyan , from the original story built by vAlmiki. The alterations were from a devotional approach, where a devotee wants to see his God as an incarnation of perfection and rectitude.

This desire for depicting one's God as great embodiment of perfection and rectitude, we can see in vAlmiki, but vAlmiki did not consider some sentences and actions of rAma as inappropriate, probably because they were in tune with the expectations of perfectness and rectitude of his days. Such additions and alterations which glorified rAma were apparently made by priests and preachers.

In case of tulsidas, it was inherent in him to see Rama as the ultimate at the zenith of perfection. Hence, the verses of tulsidas were naturally more glorifying and deifying, when compared to vAlmiki's verses. Story-line alterations were also handled in that direction.

Example: vAlmiki did not hesitate to write that Ravana lifted Sita with his left hand holding her hair behind her neck and with his right hand holding her thighs. tulsidas avoided thighs, by changing the narration. Then Sita was kept under the protection of the fire God agni, while some surrogate Sita sat in the Ashoka Gardens of Lanka.

ybremI wish that the new rAmAyana serial which is being recast by door darSan and Z TV should have a base of Sanskrit vAlmiki rAmyANa without alterations. Let the people know what the first poet vAlmiki wrote.

ybremI downloaded to Hindi rAmcharitamAnas with a view to study it in depth. But, I am already 62. It may take another four years to complete the study. Then only I can write something meaningful from that great work. I do not know whether I can do it or not. I do not have rAma or rAvaNa behind me to push me.

#165 Did rAma use his Creator's Weapon on sundry animals?

Vol. 6, Chapter 108, Verse 9
Book of War (yuddha kanDa), sarga 108, SlOka 9.

dvArANAM parighANAM
cha giriiNAM chApi bhedanam
nAnArudhira digdhAngam
medOdigdhaM sudAruNam .

CONTEXT
Battleground between the protagonist rAma and the antagonist rAvaNa.
Last stage.
rAma used Creator's Weapon (brahmAstra) on rAvaNa.

11 verses from 6-198-5 to 15 describe the arrow. Above verse 9 has some adjectives for the weapon.
1. The arrow broke gates, iron bars.
2. The arrow pierced through hills.
3. The arrow has smears of blood of numerous animals killed by it. (nAnA rudhira digdhAngam).
4. The arrow has smears of fat and marrow of the killed animals.
5. The arrow has a frightening appearance.

ybrems
*Breaking gates, iron bars, piercing through hills -- are all fantasies.
*How many times did rAma use the arrow? The Creator's Shaft was supposed to be used only in rarest of the rarest and the deadliest of the deadliest situations. Here, the weapon is having blood, fat and marrow marks of numerous animals.
*Did rAma use the arrow against small fries like rabbits, deer, wild pigs?
*Didn't rAma have the time to cleanse it or wash it with water at least once, because the weapon was considered to be sacred?
*The arrow was said to have been given by Sage Agastya to rAma, to enable him slay rAvaNa. Did Agastya or his predecessors use it to kill sundry animals?

ybrem 2
At Vol 3 Chapter 12 verse 1, rAma, lakshmaNa and SIta visited agastya's hermitage during their forest exile. The hermitage was supposed to be north of gOdAvari river in madhya pradEsh State or chattIsgadh State, because they (SRLakshmaNa) reached pancavaTi and GodAvari travelling south on agastya's advice.

If Sage agastya was to bestow the Creator's Weapon brahmAstra to rAma just before the war, the battleground should have been in the vicinity of Sage agastya's hermitage. In other words, it must be in Central India or jhArkhand. It cannot be in Tamil nADu or kEraLa, so as to be accessible to Sri lanka. If we accept this logic, Jabbalpur, panAgarh, mayhAr, amarkAntak, chindwAra, sAgar, kaTni, bAndhavgharh and many more places in the Madhya Pradesh, Chattisgarh, and jhArkhanD States perfectly establish themselves as the venues of rAma-rAvaNa war. We have to forget Sri lanka and rAma sEtu.

So, summary for this post: Did agastya or rAma ever wash /cleanse the brahmAstra? Or were they carrying it on their shoulders with all the smears of blood and fat? Does power, sacredness, and slime all go hand in hand?

Does creator's weapon need speeding up by bird's feathers?

Vol. 6, Chapter 108, Verse 12
Book of War (yuddha kAnDa), sarga 108, SlOka 12.

nandanaM vaanarendrANAM
rakShasAm avasaadanam
vAjitaM vividharvAjaish
chaaruchitrairgarutmataH.

CONTEXT

The scene : war scene between the protagonist rAma and the antagonist demon king rAvaNa.
rAma used the Creator's weapon (brahma astra) against rAvANa.

This made the forest-dwelling rAmA's vAnara army happy (nandanam).
It was capable of destroying (avasAdanam) the demons.

It was made fast (vAjitam = made fast like a horse), tied with beautiful light-weight awesome feathers (cAru citrair garutmataha) and with a replica of the fast-high-flying-kite God garuDa.

ybrems
Can't creator's weapon fly on its own? Does it need aero-dynamic pushers?

6-108-7 says that it was ornamented with gold. Gold is a metal with high specific gravity and it increases the weight. Not suitable to make or adorn flying objects. We have to presume that the arrow was made of bamboo only, but was coated with gold or tied with some gold bands.

The temple preachers say that even a blade of grass is sufficient to imbibe it with the power of the Creator's weapon (brahma astra), but rAma was not using such simple things.

6-108-20 says that the arrow came back after piercing through the chest of rAvaNa. Was it a boomerang?

Temple preachers have another story to tell: rAma was advised by vibhIshaNa to hit rAvaNa on his navel, because it contained the pot of immortal nectar which protected rAvaNa. We do not find this advice in vAlamki rAmAyaNa. According to vAlmiki, rAmA aimed his arrow towards rAvaNa's chest and killed him.

More about this Creator's weapon brahma astra, in the next post.

Proof for demons also being Aryans

Book 6, Chapter 109, Verse 23
yuddha kANDa (Book of War), sarga 109, SlOka 23.

eShohita agnishcha
mahaa tapaashcha
vedantagaH karmasu
chaagryashuuraH
Etasya yatpretagatasya
krityam
tatkartum ichchhaami
tava prasaadaat.

Context: Lanka's king (Demon?) rAvaNa abducted protagonist rAma's wife SIta.
rAma crossed the Sea, reached lanka, fought a battle with rAvaNa and slayed him.

rAvaNa's younger brother vibhIshaNa wants to perform rAvaNa's last rites. He was seeking rAma's consent. vibhIshaNa was describing the noble qualities of his dead brother.

1. rAvaNa maintained sacred fire meticulously (hitAgni).
2. rAvaNa practised great penances (mahA tApasa).
3. rAvaNa was well-versed in philosophy (vEdantAga).
4. rAvaNa was well-versed in sacred rites. (karmAsu).

(O rAma, I wish to perform with your graceful consent, to the departed soul, whatever is due.).

ybrems
Our temple preachers and priests have a tendency to depict rAvaNa and his asura (demon) relatives and soldiers as some barbaric cannibals, ever craving for 'nara vAsana (smell of humans)'.

Do savages and cannibals maintain sacred fire? Do they perform great penances? Do they study the Aryan sacred scriptures --the vEdas and vEdAngas? Will they be well-versed in sacred rites (presumably sacrifices).

Some researchers said that rAvaNa was a buddhist, bent on disrupting the sacrifices performed by Aryans.

rAvaNa had all the qualities of Aryans of his days. The war between rAma and rAvaNa was, therefore, apparently between two rival Aryan kings. Not a war between Aryans and drAviDs.

According to Zend Avesta, suras and asuras were step-brothers. (There suras were bad guys and the asuras were good guys). According to Hindu scriptures, suras were demy-Gods and good guys. asuras were demons and bad guys. This reversal of roles between Iranian and Indian scriptures might have taken a few Centuries to materialise. Both suras and asuras came to India just as the Portuguese, Dutch, British and the French all the four entered as merchants and invaded India. The British and the French fought. In the same way the suras and asuras fought. The folk-singers (paregynic singers) sang as per the desires of their patrons. Suras apparently dominated the city-kingdoms and consequently all the praises went to them. E.g. Everywhere in vAlmiki rAmAyan, rAma was compared to the sura chief Indra (also called Sakra).

Question: How about rAvaNa being a "gOnD" king of Central India?
Ans: We may have to consider that Gonds, and asuras of Jharkhand were also Aryans-- belonging to the asura clan (sons of great grandmother 'diti') while suras, Indra, vishNu (whose incarnation was rAma) were sons of the great grandmother aditi. Both were sons of the same father Sage kashyapa. kasyapa seems to have greater sympathies towards his elder wife 'aditi'.

We can have some contemporary 21st Century examples:

*The former Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh Late N.T. Rama Rao had two wives. The first wive's sons did not like their step mother and vice versa.

*One former Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh and uttarAncal States had legitimate son through his official wife and another son, through another friendly woman. The son of the unofficial wife had to fight a legal battle to establish the identity of his father.

*One former Mayor of the Delhi city and former Army Major nearly crushed his son born through his first wife. This was necessary to satisfy his second wife. The son suffering from 'battered child syndrome' had to be rescued by his maternal grand parents.

*Both rAmAyaNa and mahAbhArata were battles among sons of brothers. The battles between suras and asuras (deified as Gods and vilified as demons) had nothing special in them.

Question: At verse 6-108-17, we find that rAma killed rAvaNa by using the weapon of the Creator (brahmAstra). Why did n't rAvaNa too use it against rAma? This was the same brahmastra which was used by rAvaNa's son mEghnAth (indrajit) against hanuman a forest-dweller of monkey totem-clan. If rAvaNa's son could have it and use it on a flimsier occasion, why didn't rAvaNa possess it and use it when the situation was very critical?

Ans: Apparently, the producer of the epic vAlmiki wanted to bring rAmAyaNa to a close. Already nearly 24,000 verses have been spent.

Did rAma worship female Goddesses -particularly kALi or pratyangira?

Question: Did rAma or ikshvAkus (his ancestral dynasty or raghu clan) worship female Goddesses?

Answer: vAlmiki rAmAyaNa is silent. SitA prayed the River Goddess yamuna, while crossing the river. Agastya's hermitage which rAma visited during the fag end of his exile in forest, along with SitA and lakshmaNa, contained about 17 places dedicated to Gods/Goddesses. It included a place for the Goddess 'bhagavati'.

rAma, and daSaratha performed horse sacrifices to please God Indra. Once ancestor king ambarIsha performed sacrifices to satisfy God vishNu. The vAlmiki rAmAyan does not at least mention that they were regular worshippers of Goddess lakshmi.

Question: What is the trigger for this comment by you?
Ans: In India, in the State of Andhra Pradesh, two top police bosses (Director Generals of Police or DGPs) are fighting for the post of the Head of Police force in the State. Court cases are pending.

26th July 2012: The local newspapers Andhra Jyothi and Deccan Chronicle reported that the rival-aspirant-claimant DGP Mr. Umeshkumar and his family had performed some kshudra pUjAs (ignoble worships - witchcraft?) in a temple for Goddess pratyangira at rAmakrishnApuram, in the outskirts of the Hyderabad City, for destruction of his enemies (presumably the incumbant DGP Mr. dinEsh reDDy).

Having come to know of the worship, the incumbant DGP Mr. dinEsh reDDy's subordinate police officers are investigating into the affair.

The Andhra jyOthi newspaper claimed that performing rituals and sacrifices to Goddess pratyangira was an ancient practice and that rAma, and krishNa too did the pratyangira worship before going to battles.

The newspaper seems to have received the information from the pratyangirA temple priests and organisers. Temple priests, trustees, and Executive Officers have a habit of claiming great powers and miracles for the Gods and Goddesses, their temples have. They often quote the scripture skAndha purAna for their claims. This skAndha purANa is a sort of "fluid" without any specific shape or form. Anybody can draw anything from it.

This pratyangirA temple has I.A.S. Officers and political leaders as its customers. (According to one temple trustee, kshudra pUjAs (evil or tAntrik worships) are performed in grave yards and not in temples. The prayers, rituals and sacrifices which take place in temples always have noble goals and are not kshudra (evil witchcraft).

The newspaper Andhra jyOthi made a good distinction between a kshudra pUja (evil witchcraft like worship) and virtuous worship. This virtuous worship, we can probably call bhadra pUja? Something done for own good or somebody's good is supposed to be a positive worship. Something done for destruction of others is kshudram or evil.

If prayers take place in American and European churches for victory of NATO forces, do they become kshudram or bhadram? Simultaneously, if prayers take place in pAkisthAni, or Iranian mosques for destruction of Nato forces do they become kshudram or bhadram?

Humans classify and justify whatever they do whimsically.

Things have reached to such a sordid state, that we have to view everything cynically.

Added on 28 July 2012:

*The essence of atharvaNa vEda (the fourth sacred book of hindus) mainly is annihilation of enemies using both physical weapons and magic chants and witchcraft. Animosity between enemies need not always be of invading or sharing kingdoms. It can even be envy between two rivals seeking the same girl, where one lover succeeds in getting the girl, while the other rival is left in the lurch. The lover who got the girl will also perform motivated worships to preserve his girl and prevent her being snatched away or weaned away by his rival. Details of some of such chants and rituals, readers may see at yb blog: (click to go to)atharvaNavEdayb.blogspot.com.


Mr. Dinish Reddy, the Director General of Police, Andhra Pradesh State (the Officer who became the boss superseding umEshkumar who happened to be his senior) spoke to the media. It seems that he has warned the temple authorities against allowing worships placing 'liquor and meat' on the idols. One gets an impression, that an FIR could not be registered, as an appropriate Section of Indian Penal Code could not have been identified or adequate admissible and tangible evidence was not available.

Case of Maihar - Madhya Pradesh - as rAvaNa's Lanka

Maihar, Satna District, is in Madhya Pradesh, Central India.

Maihar is 135 km. from ChitrakOOT, the first forest area rAma entered after taking guidance from the Sage bharadwAja.

It may, nowadays, take only 2 hrs. to travel from ChitrakOOT to maihAr in car. We should not forget that rAmA, Sita and LakshmaNa travelled by foot.

Strengths of maihAr as rAvaNa's lanka:

maihAr has the Mount trikUT. rAma camped with his Army, on the Mount trikUT, after crossing the ocean.

Note: deoghar, jhArkhand too has mOunt trikUT. But the distance between ChitrakOOt, Madhya Pradesh-Uttar Pradesh border and deOghar is 749 km. rAma and his vAnarA Army (I shall not call them monkeys. They are forest dwellers), according to vAlmiki rAmAyaNa, took only two days to travel from kishkindha to Lanka. It was highly impossible that they would have covered 749 km. in two or three days and then built a bridge of 1500 km. on the Ocean.

Hence, if vAlmiki rAmAyaNa were to actually happen, distances will have to be coverable by foot. After visiting Sage sutIkshna's hermitage, Rama-Sita-lakshmaNas stayed at one place nearly for 12 years. One year was spent by sItA in rAvaNa's lanka after her abduction. Thus, only one year was spent on walks.


Sita had gold ornaments on her body. rAma had to look out to all the four sides to checkup whether there were any demons like viradha, kabandha (or some other robbers) nearby. He might have liked to make some inquiries from more hermitages about demons/robbers ahead.


Besides, rAmA has to carry SItA on his shoulders, whenever she was unable to walk fast in forest terrain, amidst thick bushes, unpaved paths, ravines, hillocks etc.


Apart from that, rAma was very particular in choosing places for his camps, which should have enough deer to hunt. lakshmaNa had to go on his errands in search of deer, hunt and roast them, and offer to his brother and sister-in-law. Then rAma had to feed the pieces of steak into Sita's mouth. As all these things took time and were tiresome, scope for their touring across the length of India was limited.

With this reasoning, 135 km. distance from citrakOOT may be sufficient enough to place rAvaNa's lanka. The trikUTa hill is 600 ft. high. Quite picturesque.

Question: Where was/is the ocean at maihAr?
Ans: rAma and the kings of ikshvAku dynasty claimed that they dug (excavated) the Sea. sagara was ancestor of rAma. sagara was said to have dug the sea and hence, we have the SAnskrit word 'sAgara' to mean the sea. What human kings can excavate? Tanks, probably bigger than the normal village tanks. For example vijayanagara kings of hampi, dug several tanks in their kingdom, for providing drinking water and irrigation. Some of them have the suffix 'sAgaram', indicating that they are like the Sea. E.g. bukka sAgaram in the name of king bukka rAyalu.

On the basis of reasoning, we can probably say, that rAma might have built a bridge across a tank/mote/canal/rivulet to reach lanka. The sheet of water which rAma and his Army crossed might have been the sAgar dug by his ancestors.

Many forts, mounts, villages and towns in madhya pradesh and chattis garh have some good lakes, rivers, water-falls, any of which could have the suffix 'sAgar' and meant the Sea.

If we take all these factors into account, maihAr town too deserves an opportunity to be considered as the location of rAvaNa's lanka. Unfortunately, except the name 'trikUT', nothing else of vAlmiki rAmAyana, we can associate with maihAr.

We have two or three places in jhArkhand State, which have the name 'sAgarbhanga'. We have one sAgarbhanga in West Bengal and another in banglAdEsh. But there was no Sea nearby. 'Bhanga' means breaching, conquering, defeating etc. Unfortunately, the two sAgarbhangas in jhArkhand (one in deoghar Dt., South of trikUT there and another in sAhebganj District), do not have any archaeological or mythological or at least a folklore background, so that we can appreciate the true meaning of breaching the Sea. jhArkhand has two ajOdhyas and two lankas.

Thus, it appears to me after much burning of midnight oil, that chitrakOOT itself may not be in uttarpradEsh and madhyapradEsh. This is because, vAlmiki was from North bIhar. He might have then initially shifted to chApra/baliyA area on U.P., bIhar border.

chitrakoot.nic.in, the Government official website of the chitrakoot district, UP, has a hermitage of vAlmiki, at 18 km. distance from Allahabad. It has vAlmiki river also. They claim that sita-rama-lakshmaNa passed through this place, while proceeding to chitrakOOT. They also say that Sita gave birth to her sons lava and kuSa at this place only.

But vAlmiki rAmAyaNa is silent about this vAlmiki hermitage which rama-sita-lakshmana visited while proceeding to ChitrakOOT from Allahabad. Of course, many tourist places of rAmAyaNa, do not have a stamp of mention in vAlmIki rAmAyaNa.

At one of these blog posts, I noted that vAlmiki's hermitage (second, apart from that of nEpAl/North bIhar) could have been in mIrzApur vindhya mountains.

(To continue with more evidence or information or discussion.).

We have to do more research work.

Hence, I am not concluding that maihAr was the lanka of rAvaNa.

Was rAvaNa against sacrifices? Were demons against sacrifices?

6-73-21
tatastu hutabhOktAraM
hutabhuk sadR^ishaprabhaH
juhuvE rAkShasa shrEShThO
mantravad vidhivattadA.
6-73-22
sa havirjala saMskArair
mAlya gandhapuraskR^itaiH
juhuvE pAvakaM tatra
rAkShasEndraH pratApavAn.
6-73-23
shastrANi sharapatrANi
samidhOatha vibhItakaH
lOhitAni cha vAsAMsi
sruvaM kArShNAyasaM tathA.
6-73-24
sa tatrAgniM samAstIrya
sharapatraiH satOmaraiH
chhAgasya sarvakriShNasya
galaM jagrAha jIvataH.
6-73-25
sakridEva samiddhasya
vidhUmasya mahArchiShaH
babhUvustAni lingAni
vijayaM yAnyadarshayan.
6-73-26
pradakShiNA vartashikhas
tapta kAnchanasaMnibhaH
havis tatpratijagrAha
pAvakaH svayamutthitaH.
6-73-27
sOastramAhArayAmAsa
brAhmam astravidAM varaH
dhanush chAtmarathaM chaiva
sarvaM tatrAbhya mantrayat.
6-73-28
tasminnAhUyamAnE.astrE
hUyamAnE cha pAvakE
sArkagrahEndu nakShatraM
vitatrAsa nabhastalam.
6-73-29
sa pAvakaM pAvakadIptatEjA
hutvA mahEndra pratimaprabhAvaH
sa chApabANAsirathAshvasUtaH |
khE.antardadha AtmAnamachintyarUpaH.

ybrem
There is a need to dispel two general impressions or misconceptions among Indians:

1. That rAvaNa, his son indrajit,and demons in general, were against sacrifices. In vol.1 rAmA's child (bAlakAnDA), Sage viSvAmitra approached daSaratha, to send rAma for saving the sacrifices being performed by him (viSvAmitra). mArica and subAhu were shown as pouring blood, flesh and other impurities into the sacrificial fire, from the sky.

ybremWhat did rAvaNa and demons dislike? sacrifices to please Gods vishNu and indra. ikshvAkus and rAvan clan kings seem to be neighbor kings. ikshvAkus were ruling North of 23 degrees N. latitude or the north of the Ganga river. rAvaNa and his assistants khara and dUshaNa seem to be ruling the Central India. Since rAvaNa and his followers worshipped Creator and Shiva and performed sacrifices in their favor, they seem to have gone on a rampage against the indra-vishNu sacrifices.


2. That rAvaNa and his demon followers were buddhists, who were opposed to performing of sacrifices. It might have been true, from the point of view of history, that some buddhist kings and their soldiers might have disrupted the sacrifices performed by Brahmins. But, we cannot infer that rAvaNa was a buddhist and that his commanders and soldiers, brothers and relatives were determined to obstruct all sacrifices.

The above nine verses from the volume 6 of War (yuddha kAnDa)show that rAvaNa's son indrajit performed a sacrifice using the stipulated chants and following the stipulated procedures.

CONTEXT
War commenced between rAvaNa and rAma. After suffering some losses, rAvaNa commissioned his greatest son indrajit to the war. Indrajit equipped himself with the "weapon of the Creator" (called brahmAstra) before proceeding to the battle-field.

(ybrem: The sacrifices performed by ikshvAkus, rAma, and others traditionally sent their oblations to the Demy God of Heaven indra (also called Sakra). After the advent of the vaishNava cult, the core of the oblations has started to be addressed to Lord vishNu, leaving some remnants to indra.

The followers of the trident-wielding God Shiva (Sankara) wanted that the core offerings were to be given to Lord Shiva. The legendary story of daksha yagna (sacrifice by Shiva's father-in-law daksha) revolves around this demand. In that story, vIrabhadra, an incarnation of Shiva from his hair, killed daksha and restored the honor of Shiva). These stories we find in Shiva purANa and all other Shiva literature.

rAvaNa was said to be a great devotee of Lord Shiva. Before shifting to Shiva, he performed penance on the Creator (brahma) and got his boons of near-immortality. indrajit's sacrifice should also have been directed to Lord Shiva. But the above verses do not indicate it. Since, rAvaNa and indrajit were said to have defeated and imprisoned indra (Sakra), obviously, indrajit would not direct the offering of his sacrifices to indra. We have to presume that indrajit's sacrificial offerings were addressed to the Creator, because indrajit was loading the weapon of the creator (brahmAstra). This is also logical. We cannot find any evidence in vAlmiki rAmAyaNa that rAvaNa or indrajit possessed the weapon of Shiva.

6-73-24 shows that indrajit sacrificed the neck of a live-black-goat in the sacrficial fire. If either rAvaNa or indrajit were buddhists, they would not have done that direct ghastly violence.

ybrem2
If rAma excelled in killing deer for his food and propitiating petty Gods, and horses in aSvamEdha sacrifice (for pleasing which God? indra or vishNu), indrajit seems to be satisfied with sacrificing goats.

Why vAlmIki rAmAyaN does not mention ayOdhya's name as sAkEt?

Many Hindus believe that sAkEt or sAkEtapuri was another name for ayOdhya, the Capital City of daSaratha and rAma.

But why vAlmIki rAmAyaNa, in its 24,000 verses, does not at least once, mention the name of ayOdhya as sAkEt or rAmA as the king of sAkEt or sAkEtapuri?

vAlmIki rAmAyaNa, in its 24,000 verses, mentions only once, the name of 'sAkEt'. But it is not to indicate ayOdhya.

It is in sundara kANda - the Book of Beauty (Volume 5), Chapter 1, verse 208, we find the word sAkEt.

5-1-208
tataH sa lambasya
girEh samriddhE
vichitrakUTe nipapAta kUTE
saketak oddAlaka nALikere
mahAbhrakUTapratimo mahAtmaa.

context
hanumAn, the minister of forest-dwellers vAnaras visited rAvaNa's lanka, in search of Sita.
Immediately after leaping over the Sea, looking like a mountain of clouds, he alighted on the great mountain 'lamba'.
The Mount 'lamba' had a number of lower hill-cliffs.
The hills were full of 'kEtaka' (sa=with kEtak= kEtak trees) trees, uddAlaka trees and coconut trees.

ybrems
This description is for the hills surrounding the lanka city and not ayOdhya.
Hence vAlmiki rAmAyaNa does not recognise the name 'sAkEta'.

Even rAmA's ayOdhya might have had gardens full of kEtaka trees.

Vol. 4 (Book of kishkindha - the city of forest-dwellers vAnaras), chapter 1, has 131 verses. The entire chapter has been devoted to describe the pampa lake and rAma's sexual passions and urges for his beloved SIta. Verse 4-1-81 makes a mention of the kEtaka tree.
Thus lanka and kishkindha had kEtaka trees.

2-60-9
nagara upavanam gatvaa
yathA sma ramate purA
tathaiva ramate siitaa
nirjaneSu vaneSv api

of Vol. 2 Book of ayOdhya says that SitA used to go to gardens (upavanam). But in Book of Childhood (bAla kAnDa or the Book of ayOdhya (ayOdhya kAnda), we cannot find any references to kEtaka trees, or gardens containing kEtaka trees.

Thus ayOdhya does not seem to fit into a name of 'sAkEt', though some Hindu scriptures other than vAlmiki rAmayaNa and mahAbhArata, mention ayOdhya and sAkEta as synonyms.

#158 Case of ayOdhya - nIlgiris- Balasore Dt-Orissa State

Here is an extract from Comprehensive District Annual Plan, 2011-12, Balasore District.

Ayodhya: Ayodhya where assimilation of Jainism, Budhism, Baishnavism, Tantraism Saivism, Sakthism took place. Once upon a time the place was flourished as a town and it was the Capital of a king. A large number of images (remains) have been unearthed from the site. Images of Budha,Jains, Pareshnath, Shiva, Ganesh, Natraj, Bhairabi, Maricha, Baraha, Tara are famous among them. Goddess Marichi is the most attractive images found here.

Favourable factors for this ayOdhya:
Capital of which king? Could it have been daSaratha or rAma or at least the faizAbadi ikshvAkus or the lichchAvi ikshvAkus?

Air-distance from Balasore Dt. to Sonepur Dt. in Orissa is 326 km. Sonepur is to the south-west of Balasore. Hence it fulfils the southward journey direction of rAmA, during his forest exile. Sonepur has some qualities of rAvaNa's lanka.

This ayOdhya is nearer to the Sea, when compared to the phaisabad ayOdhya, the madhubAni ayodhya and the katrisarAi ayOdhya. Any island on the Bay of Bengal Coast of Orissa can have the legendary lanka of rAvaNa.

Unfavourable factors
Was this ayOdhya also named after the same ayOdhya singh of ayOdhya Hills, purUlia District, West Bengal? bAlasore is proximate to purUlia as well.

marIci and tAra are tibetan buddhist Goddesses as well. It has nothing to do with tAra, the wife of the vAnara kings vAli and sugrIva. barAha is a famous goddess in nEpal. All these Goddesses appear to be forms of shakti worship in hinduism. (Goddesses common to Hinduism and buddhism).

Though a mention is made of assimilation of vaishNavism, the places neighboring ayOdhya, nilgiris, bAlasore, have more Shiva temples (mahAdEv).

(To continue, after obtaining more evidence).

Case of ayOdhya sAgarpUr pancayat - madhubani Dt. - bIhar

After completing about 100 posts at this blog, searching and scanning vAlmiki rAmAyaNa like a person suffering from O.C.D., I developed a hunch that faizAbad ayOdhya might have been ayOdhya-2, the cApital of rAma, after his coronation. I started feeling that ayOdhya-1 of rAma's birth, wedding, kaikEyI's scheme etc., must have been somewhere to the East of Chapra-buxar i.e South bIhar. Or further south i.e. jharkhand, west orissa.

After coming to know that renowned historian, late H.T. Sankalia opined that rAmayaNa's locale was chOTA naGpur region of bIhar (now jhAkhand), my hunch or obsession has become deeper and irresistable.

As a part of that obsession, I, first identified ayOdhyaganj in bIhar as possible ayOdhya-1. It failed, because the naming of that place was said to be in the name of a local ruler, ayOdhya Singh.

I, then examined the ayOdhya hills, in purUlia District, West Bengal. Same problem, of the place being named by a local ruler, ayOdhya Singh.

Here, we have another ayOdhya, panchAyat sAgarpUr, panDaul block, madhubani District, bIhar. No place-history was available for this village, unfortunately.

I provide a link to the map of the ayOdhya in sAgarpUr-panDaul, madhubani, bIhar.
http://www.brandbihar.com/english/districts/madhubani/madhubani.html#madhubani_culture.

This site also contains places of interest in madhubAni. Nothing, we can find about ayOdhya or sAgarpUr. There is something about panDauli.

Favorable points which support the case of ayOdhya-sAgarpUr as ayOdhya-1
This ayOdhya is adjacent to sitAmarhi Dt., the birthplace of Sita. madhubani's North is nEpal, very near to janakpur, said to be mithila. valmikinagar is also nearby.

tAdkavan (The forest of tATaka), siddhAsram (hermiTage of viSvAmitra) are not far away. It may be recalled, that as per vAlmiki rAmAyaNa, viSvAmitra left his siddhASram- with rAma-lakshmaNas, towards mithila (janakpur?) followed by 100 carts. These places are nearer to bihar's ayOdhya when compared to faizAbad ayOdhya.

Sage gautama's hermitage was also nearby.

Unfavourable points:
Where is the sarayu? Where is the ganga?

This post will be subject to further revision, after getting more evidence.

In the next post, I shall write about ayodhya-nIlgiris- bAlasore District, orissa.

#156 rAma does not forget thighs and hips

Volume 5 i.e. Book of Beauty or the SundarA kAnDA
Chapter 66 i.e. sarga 66
Verse 15 or SlOka 15
5-66-15
madhurA madhura AlApA
kim Aha mama bhAminI
mat vihInaa varArohA
hanuman kathayasva mE.

5-66-12
katham sA mama sushroNi
bhIru bhIruH satI tadA
bhaya AvahAnAm ghoraaNaam
madhyE tiShThati rakShasAm.

CONTEXT
Demon rAvaNa abducted SItA and kept her in lanka.
With the help of SugrIva (the king of forest-dwellers), rAma sent SugrIvA's minister to search for SItA.
hanumAn found her in lanka and came back with the happy news.
He presented to rAma a head jewel given by SItA, as a token of his visit.
Now, rAma was asking hanumAn what was SItA's message to him.

rAmA and vAlmiki used all the 15 verses in the chApter to describe rAmA's anxiety and eagerness.

ybrems
rAmA is often described by temple preachers as 'maryAda purushOttama, i.e. the best of men with the best etiquette and manners.


In the first verse quoted above, rAma was enquiring from hanumAn, how his SItA "varArOhiNI" (lady of good hips) was?

In the second verse quoted above, rAma was enquiring from hanumAn, how his shy and timid SItA "suSrONI" (lady of good limbs) was able to sit in the midst of fierce demons?

Even as a great king of ikshvAku dynasty and as incarnation of the supreme Godhead, rAmA should have had great composure, deportment, and emotional equilibrium. We expect these traits from him because he heard 40,000 verses yOga vASishTham (also called vaSishTha gIta) from ikshvAku guru vaSishTha, which is regarded as one of the greatest treatises of Hindu philosophy. Otherwise, what is the use of hearing to 40,000 verses? A sumati Satakam of 100 verses or bhartruhari subhAsita triSati of 300 verses would have been sufficient.

IN the first verse of this chapter, vAlmiki used the verb 'prarurOda' (wept). (rAma wept on seeing the jewel.).


In the second verse, you will find "shoka karshitaH , netraabhyaam ashru pUrNAbhyAm". He was grief-filled. His eyes were full of tears.


Temple preachers and swAmIjIs will say that rAmA's love for SItA was so great, that he had tears in his eyes. The same gentleman would not hesitate to ask Sita to go with SugrIva or vibhIshaNa or lakshmaNa or anybody she liked, because his aim in rescuing her from rAvaNa's captiviity was just to show that he was not timid and to prove his ability. The same gentleman asked lakshmaNa to abandon her in forest,
without even telling her that she was being abandoned.

Even while shedding tears, rAma did not forget SItA's limbs and hips.

Does vAlmIki rAmAyaNa reflect progress of Aryan expansion into South India?

Question: Does vAlmIki rAmAyaNa reflect progress of Aryan expansion into South India?

Answer:
This idea of rAmAyaNa representing the transit of the migrant Aryans from North India to South India, seems to be the brain-child of Ralph T.H. Griffith, one of the early translators of rAmAyaNa into English.

Considering the transport infrastructure available in the Deccan Plateau of those days and the impenetrable forests, mountains and rivers dominating the terrain, it was most unlikely that rAmA-lakshmaNa and Sita, could without horses or carts have traversed the country from North to South. Besides, for rAmA, there was no such compelling circumstances.

Compulsions might have arisen subsequently to Aryans to flee to South India when there were further invasions from the Northwest by more Indo-European-Iranian-Semitic-Mongol colonisers. Theoretically, there could have been no end for this fleeing from North India to South India, because invasions took place up-to 1800 a.d. The invasions became stronger and stronger with the invention of fire weapons like guns and mortars. The Aryans who depended more on imaginary chants (mantras, astras and tantras) could not resist the Turks, Mongols (Moghuls?), later Iranians and the Europeans and the southward emigration became inevitable.

ybrem
Both rAma and rAvaNa were Aryans. The fight among them was for a lady and probably hegemony on some territories. It has nothing to do Aryan-draviDian or Aryan-buddhist battles or squirmishes.

Was rAvaNa an Aryan or a drAviD or an AdivAsi?

Question: Was rAvaNa an Aryan or a drAviD or an AdivAsi?

Answer
This is an extremely difficult question to answer because the versions of vAlmIki rAmAyaNa we have before us today is a 'priests and preachers' version. We can't call it even an 'Aryan' version because Indians over centuries have undergone amalgamations, absortions and mergers with invading races, to such an extent that we cannot distinguish among people on the basis of castes, races, and tribes.

Some groups of people have started nursing within their minds - biases, based on their own beliefs of their own identities and affiliations. If anything is said by an analyst or a historian or a writer, immediately it will have a rebounding reaction "our sentiments are hurt", "ban this", "ban that" etc. This intolerance is an obstruction in the path of fact-finding.

Subject to the above, without malice towards any group, I furnish below my provisional feeling about rAvaNa:-

rAvaNa was a fellow-king of rAma. rAma and rAvaNa were like two rival shop-keepers selling their goods. Readers know how traders, business persons, industrialists, bureaucrats and politicians behave in a market. You can take cement manufacturers for an example. They compete with one another fiercely, so-much-so that we consumers get an impression that we are going to get the best price and the best quality. They also form cartels, restrict supply of cement during construction season, and jack-up prices before your own eyes.

You can think of shops in a market. The rival traders bitterly quarrel all the time. The moment an Income Tax Officer or a Sales Tax Officer or a Labor Officer visits the area with his squad, the traders telephone one another or send clerks to the neighboring shops. Within a few minutes, all the shops down their shutters and the entire market gives a deserted look. The Inspectors have to return with blank faces and empty hands.

ybrems contd.
I have already mentioned in one of my blog-posts here itself, that Aryans and draviDians were like the European colonialists fighting with one another and also fighting with the natives and blacks when they revolt or obstruct the colonialisation. French and British colonialists fought in United States and CanaDa. We have in CanaDa, even today the French areas like Montreal and the British areas like Toronto. It happened between Dutch and British in Ceylon, Indonesia and East Indies. It happened among French, British, Portuguese and Dutch in India. It happened between French and Spanish in South America.

Phallic worship, was apparently not native to India. It might have entered into India along with the Indo-Europeans from North Europe. Example: Germany has a 28000-year-old sculpted phallus buried in the famous Hohle Fels Cave near Ulm in the Swabian Jura. India and Germany have the common thing 'swastik' sign. Then, why not fallic worship?

Greece has phallic worship. Tyrnavos City in Greece holds an annual Phallus festival. The picture of priapus can be seen at the following wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priapus.

Romans too had phallic worship before Christian Era.

Hence, we should not wonder if rAma and rAvaNa were Aryans and actively participated in phallic worship.

rAvaNa was a phallus worshipper. vAlmIki rAmAyaNa does not expressly have verses of prayers by rAvaNa, in praise of Shiva. manDOdari lamented that rAvaNa lifted the Mount kailAsA. But folklore supports. Why vAlmiki rAmAyaNa didn't contain a eulogy-prayer (stOtram) by rAvaNa? At some point in the book of war, he should have prayed Lord Shiva. Reason: vAlmiki rAmAyaN was sung and propagated with the patronage of sun-clan kings (sUrya vamSis).


rAmA was apparently not a phallic worshipper. However, millions of Hindus believe that rAmA installed the rAmESwara lingam, at dhanushkODi, on the Southern tip of India.

In the book of War,

6-59-130
yad Indra vaivasvata bhAskarAn vA
svayamubha vaishvAnara SankarAn vaa
gamishyasi tvam daSadhA diSO vA
tathApi me nAdya gatO vimOkShyasE.

rAmA warned rAvaNa that he cannot be rescued by Gods Indra (Chief of Heaven), God of Death (vaivasvata), Sun, Fire God, Creator, and the God Sankara (Shiva), even after fleeing in ten directions.

ybrem
In chapter 105, rAma prayed the Sun God, on the advice of Sage Agastya. In the prayer to Sun God, Agastya said that the Sun God was the supreme controller of the three trinity i.e. Creator brahma, protector VishNu and the destroyer Shiva.

But the Sun God was a petty God under the control of rAvaNa as per 1-15-10:

nainam sUryaH pratapati
pArshve vAti na maarutaH
calad Urmi mAlI tam driShTvA
samudro-api na kampate.

Sun God will not shine, if he sees rAvaNa. Wind does not move by his sides. A tempestuous sea will not move when it sees rAvaNa.

What would have been the use of praying such weak Sun God? rAma should have prayed Lord Shiva. But, in vAlmiki rAmAyaNa, we cannot trace any verse whereby rAma prays Lord Shiva.


In fact, there was only one instance of rAma and Shiva coming face-to-face. It was at the end, after the slaying of rAvaNa. After the fire-ordeal of Sita. Fire God returned SitA to rAma. Then many Gods appear before rAma, who included the Creator brahma and the Destroyer Shiva. Shiva brought rAma's dead father daSaratha, to rAma's presence to declare that he was happy with rAma's conduct.

Then rAma and lakshmaNa salute their father. They did not salute or praise Lord Shiva. The entire Chapter 119 was used for the conversation of the deceased father and the two sons. Lord Shiva was just like an observer or a guest artist in a film. Didn't he deserve one or two verses of prayer (stOtram) or at least thanks, from rAma?

I must write something good about rAma. In chapter 120, the Chief of Heavens Indra, asked rAma to seek a boon. rAma asked indra to bring back to life, all the vAnaras who laid down their lives in the battle.

Note: Here also, there may be a foresight or prudence. rAma had to go back to ayOdhya with full strength. Else, bharata may refuse to return the kingdom.

Summary: Arya or draviDa or AdivAsi, or something else is immaterial for a business-person or a ruler. The whet-stone is the question: how far they will be useful when required?

So, the stories of rAma being a devotee or Shiva or the Shiva being a devotee of rAma, do not find their tenacity or veracity in vAlmiki rAmAyaNa.

Part 2 of 'Where is ravana's lanka'?

SONEPUR - West Orissa
Latitude: 20'-30" North. Longitude: 83'-27" East.
Also called subarNapUr.
Headquarters of the Sonepur-subarNapur District, in West Orissa.
sOne = gold. subarNa or suvarNa or svarNa or swarNa = gold. pUr = town.

---

We have to guard ourselves against confusion with other sOnepur-s.

1. sOnepUr in 24 pargaNa Dt. of West Bengal.
2. sOnepur, 22 km. from pATna in SaraN District, bIhAr.

---

Factors which favor sOnepur as rAmAyaNa's lanka:

1. Existence of Goddess lankESwari on an island hill in mAhAnadi river.
2. Existence of some mounds in the river, which support the possibility of remnants of an Earth fort.
3. vAlmIki rAmAyaNa described lanka as a land extremely rich in gold and gems.

Vol. 5, Chapter 2, verse 54
Book of beauty i.e. sundarakANDa, sarga 2, SlOka 54.

kAnchanAni cha chitrANi
toraNaani ca rakshasAm
lankAmuddyotayAmAsuH
sarvataH samalamkritAm.

Vol. 5, Chapter 6, verse 34
Book of beauty i.e. sundarakANDa, sarga 6, SlOka 34.
sahasram vaahinIhi tatra
jaambuunada parishkritAha
hema jAlair avicchinnAha
taruNa Aditya samnibhAha.

5-6-41.
jAmbU nadamayAni eva
SayanAni AsanAni ca
bhAjanAni ca SubhrANi
dadarsha hari yUthapaHa,

3. Sonepur, West Orissa has rich tantric and witchcraft traditions. rAvaNa and his son mEghnAth had great reputation as powerful fighters using black magic and sorcery.

4. A copper plate of 10-11th Century A.D. circa, found at Sonepur, indicated that its Price SomEswar dEVa, called himself ruler of 'paschim lanka' (western lanka).

UNFAVOURABLE FACTORS FOR SONEPUR, WEST ORISSA.
1. Too long a distance (nearly 540km.) from bhagalpur where there were the mandhara Mount and rAvaNa-worshipped baidyanAth-dhAm.

2. -do- FROM Anjana, pampa, and rishyamUka, pAlkot (birth place of hanuman, and possible locations of kishkindha).

3. -do- from Mirzapur (alia vindhyAncal) of the U.P. /bIhAr border.

4. -do- Sage sutIkshNa's hermitage near SatnA, madhya pradEsh.

The whole abduction, search for SItA, vAli-sugrIva battle, etc. have to take place between the rivers mandAkini and pampa. mandAkini river, as per the current evidence being at citrakUT on UP/MP border and pampa in gumlA Dt. of jhArkhanD. There after the battle scene has to shift to trikUT Mountains in the baidyanAth dhAm, deoghar, jhArkhand.

Hence,I am unable to accept SOnepur as the location of lanka.

.

Subject to re-edit after getting fresh evidence.

#151 Could Chhindwara have been rAvaNa's lanka?

Where was rAvaNa's lanka? This was causing me several sleepless nights.

I have done a sort of loud and open thinking in these blog-posts. I have already written many times that we cannot make wild-guesses. At the same time, we cannot blindly accept that rAvaNa's lanka was SrI lanka, because of the impractically large distances involved.

Recapitulation
rAvaNa abducted Sita, when rAma, lakshmaNa and Sita were staying at pancavaTi, on the northern banks of the River gOdAvari. Here we have two claimants for the godAvari-pancavaTi: 1.nAsik, mahArAshTra 2. bhadrAcalam, A.P.

rAma and lakshmaNa searched for sItA in the vicinity. valmIki rAmAyaNa does not mention that rAma and lakshmaNa crossed river gOdAvari and if so, how?

Moving they finally reach kishkindha-rishyamUka mountp-pampa lake/river. hampi-anegondi near beLLAri, KarnATaka State stakes a tourist claim for kishkindha.

From this point, hanuman-let South batch went southwards in search of Sita. After some months, they landed in a cave of svayamprabha. She brought the vAnaras out of the cave. At 4-51-32 of vAlmIki rAmAyaN svayamprabha told vAnarAs: "Here are vindhyas. Here are prasravaNa hills. Here is the great Ocean. Wish you all the best."


Between bhadrAcalam and rAjahmundry, there is a claim for the prasravaNa hills on both sides of river gOdAvari. A 15th Century Telugu poet SrInAtha also made a mention of these prasravaNa hills.

After some persuasion, hanumAn leaped over the 1600 km. ocean, taking the mahEndra hill as the launching pad. This mahEndra hill, popular tourism version, is in Andhra-Orissa border.

At that point, I made a prediction, that lanka must be an island between Visakhapatnam and Berhampur on the sea-coast off-shore.

Later, I felt that lanka could be an island on the Godavari river itself between the East-Godavari and West Godavari Districts of A.P. delta between Gautami river and the vAsishTha river. vAsishTha river near the bay of Bengal has two pilgrimage spots named rAmEswaram (North bank) and lakshmaNESwaram (South bank).

Yet I am not satisfied. Why? This distance is too long between phaizabad ayOdhya in U.P. and gOdAvari delta of A.P / mahendra hill of Andhra Orissa Border.

I then tried the western coast of maharAshtra. Any of the seaside forts of ratnagiri, konkaN, Diu and DAman could have been the hosts of rAvaNa's lanka. This is because of

6-4-72 :

ataH pAdapa sambAdham
nAnA mriga samAkulam
sahya parvatam AsEdur
malayam ca mahI dharam.

CONTEXT
hanumAn returned from lanka. Informed rAma about sItA's well-being. rAma and sugrIvA launch the march of vAnara army towards sea-shore for crossing over to lanka.

rAma mounted hanumAn, the minister of sugrIva. lakshmaNa mounted angada, the Prince. They reached sea-coast in a day or two (epic not clear about time taken for the treck).

"sahya" mountains refer to "sahyadris" which are a long stretch, spreading from Gujarat to kanyAkumari.

"malaya" parvatams , TamilnADu's rAmESwaram has a claim. Where did the rAma's army actually cross the sahyAdris in one or two days from kishkindha.

The whole thing ends up as an impractical exaggeration.

Before we take up the case of chhindhwara in South Madhya Pradesh as rAvaNa's lanka, it will be better for us to estimate the boundaries of rAvaNa's kingdom:

East: bhagalpur, baidyanath dham i.e. deoghar, with its trikUT Mount.

---

South: tapati river, bhilai in chattisgadh, koraput and berhampur Districts in oDissa, and the mahendra hill.

---

West: Diu, DAman, Ahmedabad, kOTa.

---

North: Delhi, Allahabad, mIrzapur, sasAram, gaya, patna, bhagalpur.

We have to compare these boundaries of rAvaNa's kingdom with the boundaries of rAmA's kingdom. Though rAma claimed that entire Earth beonged to ikshvAkus and that Sea was dug by his ancestor Emperor sagara, we cannot accept this idea. We have to draw some realistic boundaries, even for rAma's kingdom.
East: ikshvAku viSAla's kingdom i.e. vaishAli in bIhar, janakpur in nEpal.

---

South: Yamuna and ganga rivers.

---

West: Delhi.

---

North: nEpAl. Northwest:kEkaya kingdom ruled by kaikEyi's father aSvapati.

Meerut City in Western U.P. : has a claim as rAvaNa's father-in-law mayAsura's kingdom, and as the native place of manDOdari, rAvaNa's queen.

Mandsor, near jOdhpur, rAjasthan: has a claim as rAvana's father-in-law mayasura's kingdom, and as the native place of manDOdari. Said to be the place of wedding of rAvaNa and manDOdari.

biSarakh, near NOIDA, Uttar Pradesh: has a claim as rAvaNa's birthplace.

kAnpUr, uttar pradEsh: has a temple for rAvaNa.

bhadkhedI village, ShAjApur District, Western Madhya Pradesh: worship of rAvaNa and his son mEghnAth.

Chhindwara District Headquarters town in madhya pradEsh: This place is situated to the south of Chitrakoot, Madhya pradEsh. chhindwAra has the 'kanhan' river flowing nearby. kanhan is a tributary of godAvari. Probability: location of rAmA's pancavaTi here. (I am not concluding).

Mr. Shivlal Ulke, President of gOnDvAnA mahAsabha (Great Congress of Gondvana), Damuva Block, Chhindwara District, Madhya Pradesh, was reported to have issued in October 2008 i.e. rAvan's effigy should not be burnt during dasshera festival. Instead rAvaNa was to be worshipped. In his words:

"Though Dussehra is marked by the burning of effigies of Ravana, Kumbhakarna and Meghnad symbolising the victory of good over evil across the country, in some villages in the tribal-dominated areas of Chhindwara district people worship the demon king Ravana and his son Meghnad, ...
The tradition of worshipping Ravana and Meghnad - which has been primarily popular among the Gond tribes - has been religiously followed for generations because the Gonds believe that Ravana who was their king was a learned person well-versed with the vedas and an ardent Shiva devotee,
...
We have thus issued a directive in the entire block to alert the tribals against burning the effigy of Ravana on Dussehra since burning their effigies would tantamount to insulting the lord of the tribals,
...
This practice will not be tolerated any more. The local administration should ensure that the three effigies (Ravana, Kumbhakarna and Meghnad) are accorded due respect,

Mr. Manmohan ShAh bhaTTi, M.L.A., GondvAna gaNatantra parrty (GGP), was reported to have said:

There is nothing unusual in asking the tribals not to burn the effigy of Ravana because he (Ravana) is worshipped by Gond tribals who believe that Ravana belonged to their sect,
...
This is evident from the fact that the biggest preacher (Dharmacharya) of tribals includes the name of Ravana while writing his name. He writes Moti Ravana Kangali and not Moti Kangali alone. Besides, fairs named after Ravana’s son ‘Meghnad’ are organized in several villages and he (Meghnad) is worshipped on such occasions.

ybrems
We cannot simply set aside the above views of Mr. Ulke and Mr.bhaTTi as political statements, intended for vote-catching. On the other hand, the civilised society has neglected the people of villages and the people of forests as 'persona-non-grata' or as good as non-existent. The consequence of such deliberate non-recognition of local customs and traditions of people belonging to villages and forests is not-only their alienation from the Metro and City societies, but also their extending their thralldom to follow the 'nAgarika city-dweller' customs blindly. If Connaught Circle - delhivallah burns rAvaNA's effigy, bisarakh - NOIDAvallah should also burn the rAvaNa's effigy, without bothering to know that their own village was the birth place of rAvaNa. This type of forced-aping of customs will result not only in distortion of history, but also leads to monotonisation and monstracization of culture. It will be like a single course meal in a dirty hotel.

QUESTION
In the earlier posts, you have estimated that bhagalpur-deoghar / gumla of jhArkhand as possible locations of lanka. Are you shifting to ChhindwAra now?

Answer
No. The case of bhagalpur-deoghar-Anjan-gumla is stronger than the case of ChhindwAra. We can now make another calculated guess.

What would have happened to the loyal and staunch surviving supporters of rAvaNa after his death and coronation of vibhIshaNa as the new king?

We can use 25% probability. 25% might have stayed in lanka, accepting vibhIshaNa's rule grudgingly. Remaining 75% might have left lanka to far-off forests, to save themselves from persecution which was common to be initiated by new rulers and their lieutenants. The dilemma was either to stay as a slave in lanka or starve in a new forest till new settlements are made. It is how the Chhindwara settlement, bhAdkhEDi-ShAjApur Dt. settlements of gonD's might have taken place. To avoid recognition and persecution, they might have avoided the 'Asuri' language and the name-suffix 'asura' even in the new lands. Even the people of bhagalpur and deoghar might have stopped using Asuri language and the name-suffix 'asura', as else they might have faced social stigma.