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Sunday, September 01, 2019

202 Did Valmiki Ramayana's Story happen in North West India or in UP or in Bihar?


In our blog posts at this blog from 001 to 201, our readers will please find that, we have never examined whether Shri Rama's birthplace could have been in NorthWest India, i.e. say to West of Delhi, upto Amritsar and Lahore. I regret this omission of mine. I have examined the question of Ayodhya being in Bihar, somewhere in Vaishali and Hajipur Areas, because Sage Vishwamitra narrated to Shri Rama and Lakshmana while taking them to Tataka's place, about the predecessor IkshvAkus of Shri Rama. That Narration of Vishwamitra in Bala Kanda (Book 1 of the Story of Ramayana-- Book of Childhood of Shri Rama, gave me an impression that Vaishali Lichchavi Ikshvakus might have had a Branch of their clan to Phaisabad Ayodhya of Uttar Pradesh. There seem to be one or two villages in Vaishali-Hajipur area with the name of "Ayodhya" and "Ayodhya ganj". Though the name of Ayodhya Ganj is attributed to a local jamindar, it is possible that Vashali may have some places connected to Shri Rama's Ayodhya.

I, hitherto, have had a belief that the Story of Mahabharata, if at all it has happened in history, might have happened earlier than the happening of Ramayana. Reason: The Iranian Aryans seem to have migrated to India first. Thereafter, the Baltic and Balkan Aryans seem to have followed suit. The fraternal conflicts between the two groups of Aryans, might have taken a mythological name of 'dEva dAnava' battles, with one group probably Baltic-Balkan Aryans describing themselves as Gods, and denigrating the Iranian Aryans as demons. One reason for this guess work of mine: Baltic Aryans seemed to believe more in Lord Vishnu. They might not have been phallus Worshippers. Phallus worship might have been brought from South Europe to India by Iranian Aryans.

Anyway, most Mahabharata events have happened in West India and NW India. Dwaraka of Gujarat, Rukmini's Vidarbha of Maharashtra, Madhura Brindavan of UP, Kurukshetra of Haryana etc. all are in West India and NW India. These locations are rarely disputed. Only exception is Magadha the Kingdom of Jarasandha, which is in Bihar. Because of great geographical distance, I believe that even Mahabharata Magadha may be between Vidarbha and Madhura.

On the other hand most of Valmiki Ramayana locations are in Bihar, Jharkhand, East & North MP, Chattisgadh, Odisha. Kosala and Maha Kosala are believed to be around Chattisgadh, Jharkhand and Odisha. In the same area, there was Sabari's place. Then we have Mirzapur's Vindhyachal (Near UP-Bihar border on Ganga River, on way to Sasaram) which can be considered as Kishkindha. North to them are Anjana Devi's Birth place (Jharkhand), Ravana's Baidyanath Temple (Jharkhand). Near Anjana Devi's place, in Jharkhand, there is a village called "Lanka". Further, North to them are, Lanka Island Fort in Ganga River, further NOrth we get Lichchavi Ayodhya, far Norther we go to Tataka's place, then Sitamarhi and Darbhanga, then Valmiki Nagar District in Bihar, then Mithila in Nepal. Thus everything is in the Eastern-Central India, when compared to Mahabharata , where everything would be in North-West-Central India.

As Aryans' spread to East can take place only after their getting saturated in North Central West India, Mahabharata should have chronologically taken place first. After Aryans spread to East, Ramayana ought to have happened in East Nepal-Bihar-Jharkhand-Chattisgadh-Odisha.

NOW, I GET NEWER IDEAS FROM SHRI BHARAT JHUNJHUNWALA Retd. Professor of Economics, whose article can be read the following links.


Shri Bharat Jhunjhunwala's Article in Frontierweekly.
Shri Bharat Jhunjhunwala's article in FreePressJournal.com.. These links I take them as important for me because, now I can reverse my hitherto odd thanking that Ramayana might have happened later than Mahabharata. Now, if Ramayana places are also in Rajasthan-Hariyana-MP-West UP area , instead of in Eastern India as discussed by me earlier, both Ramayana and Mahabharata will have same locale. And both would have happened before Aryan spread to East India. But in Mahabharata we do not see conflicts between Baltic Settlers and Iranian Settlers. In Ramayana, Deva-danava (sura-asura) conflicts dominate, albeit sibling rivalries, intrigues-of-gynesium (Hindi: antahpur shaDyantr) are common threads for both.

Points in favor of Valmiki Ramayana happening in Kota-Patiala-Chitrakoot triangle


1. Ravana's Queen Mandodari's birth place is believed to be in Mandsaur, on Rajasthan-MP Border.

2. Kanyakubj (Kanoj in North UP) Brahmins claim Ravana as their ancestor.

3. There is a place near Delhi, which is believed to be Ravana's place. (Pl. see my previous posts. I shall provide a link here later).

4. Sampati's place is near Gwalior.

5. I have already examined the Southern Bank of Ujjain i.e. in Maharashtra, as possible Ravana's Lanka. Similarly, Chinddwara in South MP was also examined.

6. Kaikeyi's father Aswapati, and brother Yudhajit, are believed to have ruled the Kumawan Gharewal (Himachal Pradesh & Uttarakhand) Area. In VR's Uttarakanda, Chapter 100 (Chapter No. may vary depending on version), Shri Rama is believed to have, sent Bharata to invade Gandhara (Kandahar, AFghanistan), with the help of his maternal Uncle. There was lot of bloodshed in a River on Kandahar's border.

Question: If according to you, everything has happened in Kota-Indore-Gwalior, how can there be relics of Ravana's Kingdom in Sri Lanka?



Ans: One possibility: From 4000 BC to 2019 AD, India has undergone numerous invasions and migrations. Consequently there are West-->to East, North-->to South, movement of kings, their paraphernalia, elephants, soldiers, gold, gems, what not to Eastern States , Southern States and South East Asian countries. With the kings , the mythological stories will travel. New temples are built at new places. New places inherit new names from the Lost Kingdoms. This type of behavior we can see in USA, where towns and cities inherited their names from European Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc.

Do you support/oppose Mr. Jhunjhunwala's observations about Ramayana locales in his article given in the above links



Just as in Law, in history also everything depends on evidence. We have to wait for more evidence.

Do you support/oppose Mr. Jhunjhunwala's advice "Need to focus on the teachings of Lord Rama"


According to Valmiki Ramayana, Shri Rama gave advice to Bharat about Monarchial' Administrative methods. Today, though we have DE FACTO MONARCHY, we do not have DE JURY MONARCHY. We have some NDA2 version of democracy. Shri Rama's advice to Bharata centered around the four Caste System.

In Uttara Kanda (Book 7 Post-coronation) Shri Rama killed a 4th Caste Shudra Sambooka, because he was performing penance, which he was not supposed to do. A Brahmin reported that he lost his son, because of the sinful act of Sambooka. Shri Rama immediately called for Pushpaka Aircraft, went to Dandaka forest, beheaded Sambooka, to satisfy the Brahmana.

Shri Rama was also superstitious. This can be seen in Book of Forests (Aranya Kanda). Context: Lakshmana brought some leaves, tree-branches and raised a parNaSAla (thatched cottage or hut). To keep the Evil Spirits away, Shri Rama sacrificed how many deer and boars? Link for reading: http://ramayanayb.blogspot.com/search/label/135.

Shri Rama performed 100 horse sacrifices. Innocent persons may believe that only one horse is sacrificed, in the ritual. Unfortunately, not. Both in Yudhishthira's Horse sacrifice in Mahabharata and Dasaratha's horse sacrifice in Valmiki Ramayana, thousands of animals, birdes were sacrificed. Yudhishthira seems to have sacrificed even slaves.

Our modern rulers, in almost all the States of India, perform Sacrifices. Shri K. Chandrasekhara Rao, Chief Minister of Telangana performed . Shri Y.S. Jaganmohan Reddy, CM of Residual Andhra Pradesh is reported to have performed. Shri Digvijaya Singh Senior Congress leader performed before the 2019 Lok Sabha Election. Of course, these sacrifices may not involve sacrifice of animals, openly. But millions of Rupees are spent. Collected from whom?

Our leaders, since independence, are consciously or unconsciously following the practices, though not precepts of Shri Rama. Split brothers, promising one brother kingdom, if he helps in killing the other brother. Entice MLAs. Split Parties. Enthrone our Party.